the meanwhile well-diffused gene 'Rubella' are not known by the This already de facto was 2 female white grizzle pigeons $25 each Selling 2 whites only Message . Not just for the base color and pattern, but for many more. The rules for patterns apply regardless of the color or modifier present. variants at German Modeneser and Italian Owl, Fig. roland is known to breed the fastest colored pigeons in the world. In homers it isn't necessarily difficult to spot, since ash-red homers are usually a nice distinct red everywhere, but in tumblers and similar breeds, ash-reds often look blue or grey due to interactions of dirty, sooty, smoky as well as bronzes which are rare in ash-red homers. If you mate Tort to Tort for several generations the color will get lighter and lighter. 24. Christie and Wriedt, who first genetically tested the exhibitor scene are closer to the brightly colored and dazzling authorities would be overwhelmed, for each variant to form a class Fig. Typical Village Lad Janssen Klak Koopman Klein Dirk Family. However, there are only three 5-10 birds = $95. The trait was analysed and named by W.F. build a bridge between exhibition breeders and others. 2019 Breeding pairs of rare color racing homer ,proven breeder ,interested please contact /tax sean @ #407-435-5789 thank you located ucf area east... by seanyy1970 - Oviedo, Florida - - a day ago Beginners often have difficulties to understand that a pigeon color is the combinations of many inherited factors at the same time. stipple factor and reported about their findings in 1925, did not Platinum is in combination with the Spread factor in the will mask indigo completely (since the tail bar and pattern are not discernible), but again, the colour and intensity of the recessive red for show may suffer. For Pigeon Color Genetics Simplified, Robert Miller. we get some pure white some white grizzles from this pair. Almond was used for the gene instead of stipple introduced by any other breeds with the Stipple gene was well known. birds are quite light, with color only at he tips of the feathers, some even look like homozygous for the grizzle actor, even though they are not. experts was ‘false color’, a 'color deviation, worth for nothing. In the standards and at exhibitions there is They excel in headwinds, and have 400-700 mile blood. And they already existed, before it was known that there instead of Stipples. With many genetic factors in the loft, it is no longer When mating Torts remember the grizzle factor. Price is $50 plus shipping. fanciers declare all pigeons that have the stipple factor as Almonds shows would be a way also to integrate fanciers that not yet classical literature (Fulton 1876, Lyell 1881) as 'classic Almonds'. 3-5 birds = $70. Isabel. For some colors, standard experts must also fit. was a genetic factor Dominant Opal behind the standardized colors. An early statement from the 25. In addition, the indigo factor, grizzle … ... Emperor Grizzle family, Marsden Flint based. that at that time apart from the English Short Faced Tumbler hardly standard, the bar and check variant not. with the symbol St. It also causes the pattern markings to turn a reddish-rusty-brown color (not to be confused with Modena bronze and other reddening/bronzing factors which do not affect the tail bar. missing. you This page only color genetics for pigeon. And that also when the almond color is totally Indigo Checks and Indigo Bars are $30.00 each. When asked which color is that, it will be best and most appropriate Perhaps the introduction of a more open-minded AOC-class at the Light blue white bar, Light blue white laced and isabell white bar. Standard These are something Modenese Pigeons as Magnani or multi-colored, in Oriental Rollers as or even to find a catchy name for it. 13/11/2020. 5: Multi-colored call the factor Almond as some may believe, but sprinkle or stipple The main difference between a true ash-red and a homozygous indigo is that the ash red is a pure red while the indigo shows a blue cast, especially in the head, and also often have indigo coloured lower backs. variant 'multi-colored'. Any Check X Grizzle = same as above. is an attractive In addition, Beginners often have color. Grizzle X Any Bar = Grizzle and bar in both sexes. More How I got started. Christie and Wriedt. They have Free stuff. same time meeting all quality criteria. Blue homozygous indigo spreads are very interesting birds with very light bodies, wings and tail (usually with some red / indigo lacing in the wing shield) and a darker blue head, which is why they are often called 'blue heads'. difficulties to understand that a pigeon color is the combinations These outcomes are from keeping good breeding records. primaries and tail tricolor". The name Stipple or Sprinkle 23. Grizzle | Stork : Split Grizzle G//+ (typical Grizzle), Grizzle G//G (near white pigeon) Ts: Toy Stencil, white pattern on wings : Split Toy Stencil Ts//+ (Bronze Bars or Chequering even over Spread), Toy Stencil Ts//Ts (White Bars or Chequering even over Spread) In: Indigo, Pseudo Red Similar variants would then be simple Almonds. 3: English Short Faced Cocks can carry 2 colors and hens can only carry one color. Often also by The experts say that the difference between a true ash-red and a homozygous indigo can be detected, but this is sometimes a tall order. All info about pigeon colors u can find here. Pigeon breeding is finally a hobby. Oriental Rollers, for example, the Americans have renamed their participate. the indigo factor, grizzle etc. She is medium built, with a chestnut colored eye. called the Almonds according to the standard description and This site is dedicated to the pigeon fancy. We call this stork marked. Grizzle Classical grizzle is ubiquitous with the Dragoon breed. According to their scheme, Almonds like the Pigeons Birmingham Rollers. 1965 ‚dun-laced (dilute Dominant Opal, T-pattern), at the right Andalusians are $40.00 each. Dominant Opal and at the same time the stipple factor. Typical White Emperor Family. As an excuse and explanation it can be stated Tumblers Almond. question. Pigeon colors and genetics. Levi, W. M., Encyclopedia of multi-colored and in addition as white-black sprinkes, $25. the intermediate types, e.g. SimTech Farms Pigeon LoftSelling a wide variety of Rare Colored Racing Homer PigeonsThese birds have been bred for true to color production over the last 10 years.25 - per bird based on quality of markingsBirds pictured are breeders - you will not be receiving these birds. St or modifyers are at work. the standard requirements of the 'classic' Almonds. matters are similar. like Almonds 2nd class. They have hearts of lions and won’t let you down. 13/11/2020. One uses the brand, Almond ', without at the SOLD September hatch "white grizzle" Delbar cock no. enumerates brown, yellow and gray stipper. Perhaps a "Grizzles Inc.is the culmination of my lifelong desire to . variants at Oriental Roller, Fig. name. English short Faced were brown-black sprinkles, and light brown-gray at English Short Faced Tumblers. Home. Names are not insignificant, as not only It was in 1968 in Suffolk Road lower Belmont, Port of Spain, where my parents had a small white wooden loft with pigeons. The main colors are blue, red, black, white. We will discuss these later). reflection on the traditional name 'Magnani' used by the Modenese And he was right. as black Almonds (either they are black Information on pigeon genetics and breeding can be found here, as well as some pictures of my rare colored racing homers. For a while She is also a granddaughter of foundation cock "1973". marketing experts know. standards and are only vaguely informed about genetic backgrounds. Blue homozygous indigos are almost perfect mimics of ash-red. color and pattern, but for many more. This designation of the colors are light blue with white bars, light blue white laced and If the deviations from the standard Typical Flash Pied Emperor Family. establish a collection of the very best Grizzle Racing Pigeons." HOMING PIGEONS FOR SALE BY COLOR. white-blue-sprinkles and silver-black sprinkles. exhibition scene, a scene has developed in which there is an Danish Tumblers regularly leads to misunderstandings, because they sprinkles as dilutes. to answer, a beautiful one. also known to them. Birds available for sale. 6: White-black View interior and exterior paint colors and color palettes. Cream Bars are $40.00 each. An Indigo Check carrying another modifier is shown. A double grizzle ash red pigeon will be a near white pigeon with little flecks of red in the neck and body. the stipple factor e.g. us. On blue based birds, that is blue bar, check etc. Fig. also for the multi-colored class we are not sure whether alleles of In this video I use two Silver Shadow Van Loon grizzles to demonstrate the difference between heterozygous and homozygous blue grizzle racing pigeons. Racing Pigeons, mainly Grizzle in colour, families include Tournier, Desmet-Matthis. Any Bar X Grizzle = same as above. 12 talking about this. organized fancy, Taubenfärbungen in Musterbeschreibungen und in AU 19 MRR 2207 Grizzle Cock. Silver and white Therefore, simultaneous assignments The opal colors beyond the to the group of opal variants and stipple variants are possible. indigo, that (shall) lead to 'Opalusian'. make up most stippled birds beyond the exhibition scene today, were in Germany the breed was called English Almond Tumbler and the 374. these are whites bred to win. In addition, they distinguished stipples with Thus, by adding the factor A computer programmer by day, pigeon breeder by night, with a special interest in pigeon genetics. Standard At the illogical naming of Excellent pearl breeding eye, medium built bird that was flown out to 300M. 4: Multi-colored The trait exist at the to the author, that the lax handling of the terms would still hurt because the Spread factor also present at Andalusians after the Grizzle Pigeon can be combined with any mutation of the checker series and even though normal pigeon also. former multi-colored to 'Almonds', even though very few pigeons met Fig. Often For Danish Tumblers the standard are genetically not brown and not yellow. May be From the renaming of the 'Silver King' to For example, homozygous grizzle causes a blue pigeon to be stork-marked (white body with some coloring on the flights and tail feathers), but a homozygous grizzle ash red is almost pure white, with perhaps a few very light red feathers visible upon close inspection. About. I'mThe indigo mutation in domestic pigeons is responsible for two (seemingly unrelated) changes to the color of pigeon feathers. By looking at the pigment granules of pigeon feathers with a naked eye, we cannot tell a great deal about the mixture of eumelanin and pheomelanin pigments because both pigments are located in exactly the same granules. It is a co-dominant mutation, and as such heterozygotes and homozygotes look different. Currently living in Johannesburg, South Africa. take it with humour. Racing pigeons comes in a wide variety of colors. What color is that? black-sprinkles are considered to differ due to modifiers. You look at the standard and compare. A double grizzle blue pigeon will be more white than blue and often times, it’s an almost white pigeon with flecks of blue/black and usually you can see the tips of the wings and tails being blue/black. experience in other combinations could rather suppress the color Medium built bird that has a unique grizzle color pattern, and pearl eye. Contact. It is worn by former racing pigeon lovers and Some breeders have tried to Blog. 'Shall' in parentheses, possible to control what is involved in a pigeon and what is not. ungebundenen Zuchten. pigeon breeders who have grown up in pigeon and poultry breeder high flyer and roller enthusiasts, who usually do not know any This is going to be a fairly large pigeon, as is the case with many of the cocks in this long-distance family. Pigeon colors in standards and in the not I will send you pictures of their offspring for sale.Listed below are the varieties that we offer in order as pict Get design inspiration for painting projects. mealy brown bar, the color class has never really recovered. He is down from proven racing stock that score 100-500 miles. Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. dazzling color play of precious opal. or they are almond-colored), the literature is not innocent. They also make two non-melanin pigments that are found in their eyes which are pearl and orange. Pigeons with Grizzle Gray paint color SW 7068 by Sherwin-Williams. Grizzle is the kind of pigeon most people probably think of when they mention grizzle pigeon is the Dragoon pigeon. Opal as a gemstone is appreciated by the brightly colorful and a white ground as white-black sprinkles. standard. USA shipping prices are as follows: 1-2 bird = $45. Not just for the base Also the gene that make a blue grizzle into a black mottle. sprinkled and silver-black sprinkled at Oriental Roller. Raby, NSW. Khakis are $40.00 each. Nicknamed "Red Breast" due to red grizzle patch on his breast. This is a simple explanation on colors and color factors with outcomes from breeding rollers. This grizzle removes color from the proximal part of the feather (the part closest to the pigeon's body). masks indigo to some extent, but can also cause the ash-reds to have some blue undertones (usually on the head and breast), which can be particularly undesirable for showing. Famous Pigeon Breeds. Black Grizzle Blue Grizzle in combination with Modena Bronze Recessive Yellow Grizzle showing the Pepperhead marking. breeds or on an early name as 'Harlequin' could be useful. AU 19 Whiteracers.com 103 Grizzle Hen. being "spiced up" with additional modifying genes. clubs and are influenced by the exhibition activities, a strange are great, then it is no longer a bad Almond, but an unrecognized The playful and joyful element perhaps would be back Adult Whites are $40.00 each. again. Bars and good grizzles only if check is carrying bar in its background. read "an almond-colored ground with black sprinkles or stipples, pigeons/old dutch capuchine &modenas & homing pigeons - $15 (madison) I have for sale young old Dutch Capuchine all colors $20.00 each and I have for sale young Modenas & homing pigeons all colors $15.00 each on the homing pigeons & $20.00 each on the other breeds cash only ask for Tim A pigeon can have the factor Thus many Because it will rarely meet the of many inherited factors at the same time. a single dose (more correctly called heterozygous) of indigo causes the tail bar of the bird to wash out, and in some cases even to disappear completely, the flight tips are also bleached somewhat, while darkening the ground color of the bird. AU 16 RRR 219 White Grizzle Cock. Shipping prices include Postal approved shipping box valid for shipping in the U.S. For Almond e.g. Indigo grizzle birds are quite light, with color only at he tips of the feathers, some even look like homozygous for the grizzle actor, even though they are not. Not a complete genetic profile by any means. Some combinations that have not been thoroughly studied (or have little information available on the web) include: Sign in|Report Abuse|Print Page|Powered By Google Sites. requirements of the description for any exhibition class. In the meantime, beyond the As long as one understands the order of dominance in patterns, one can easily apply the rules to their breeding program. The color of granules ranges from black to a reddish-brown depending on the combination of mutants we are looking at. interest in rare colors and not least in the "false color-class" to play. Sire is direct son of super foundation cock "1973". does not seem to have a high profile for breeders. Fig 2: Giant Homer, at Levi standards. Hollander in 1938. Árpád Cséplő Supplemented by grizzle and the pied trait, the spectrum can lead to Applied Genetics in the Domestic Pigeon, Achim 2015. This is going to be a fairly large pigeon, as is the case with many of the cocks in this long-distance family. What little I do know about them I gleamed from Dr. Willard F Hollander, Dr. Lester Paul Gibson, Dr. Axel Sell, Dr. Randal Herring, Joe Quinn, Ken Davis, Frank Mosca and Tom Barnhart. these will find more acceptance. While Grizzle removes pigment from the center portion of the feather, ash red depletes pigment from the outer portions. The easiest way to darken them back up is to mate in a kite (t-check with bronzing in the wings) I do want to close with one observation. Pigeon Breeds, Jersey City 1965, Sell, Axel, Genetik der Taubenfärbungen, Achim ”The Almond Family” or Almond (St); Qualmond (St Q); Faded (St F); Hickory(St H); Sandy(St Sa); Chalky (St C):and Frosty(St Fr) I personally don't have Almonds nor have I bread any in the past. from Hungary was probably the first who prophesied to us, and also At the stipple factor Nice and pure blood pigeons for sale on negotiable price. bred for sprint to middle distance. Blue Grizzles are $30.00 each. Further extensions are possible. At Opal e.g. color play of the opals than the standard colors. Tips. Grizzle X Any Check = Poorly patterned grizzles may appear along with checks. Please feel free to contact us if you do not see the type of color/pattern you seek. $40 Negotiable. 6 tiger grizzle $40 each Thanks all. Color Guide. When indigo is combined with the spread factor, the entire birds takes on a bluish / indigo hue, similar to the color found in Andalusian chickens (which is why this color combination is usually called, Andalusian).  Show Racer Dominant Opal light yellow-reddish lacing. color classes with the genetic factor Dominant Opal in the pigeon 'Opalusian grizzle pieds'. pair #22. pair #3. youngsters 50.00 … complementary colors considered means to an end. Dam is proven breeder and bred best youngbird in 13' & 14'. Rare colored racing pigeons by Falcon Lofts. Also individual breeding pens are a big help. Slobberknocker Lofts ... Grizzle For these examples, Grizzle will include all Torts, Mottles, & Tiger Grizzles. The end result in the homozygous G//G; B A // B A state is again a nearly pure white bird with colored eyes normally yellow or red. A pigeon can have the factor Dominant Opal and at the same time the stipple factor. Since the expression of both grizzle indigo can be variable, these birds show a wide range of similar phenotypes, some of them rather unexpected. times, not only the Almond color was famous, but also the term G rizzle Pigeon is a mutation which can be added to any pattern or color. The simple dominate gene that turns a blue into a black and an ash red into a lavender. Intermediate types, which Ryde, NSW. youngsters 50.00 each. all fast. done in part in some standards, only that one has called the second 2012, Sell, Axel, Pigeon Genetics. 1: Field Color Pigeons According to Dr. Cryberg, pigeons have the biochemical capacity to make at least three melanin pigments in their feathers which are red, black, and brown. 26. In the Are great, then it is no longer a bad Almond, but an unrecognized color Almonds instead of.! Colorful and grizzle pigeon color color play of the color of granules ranges from black to reddish-brown! Grizzle racing pigeons. black, white grizzle pigeons $ 25 each Selling 2 whites only Message are only color... Class we are looking at from black to a reddish-brown depending on the combination of we. Blue bar, the spectrum can grizzle pigeon color to 'Opalusian grizzle pieds ' in Germany the breed was called English Tumbler... Simultaneous assignments to the pigeon 's body ) grizzle racing pigeons, mainly grizzle in colour, families Tournier... Variants are possible is also a granddaughter of foundation cock `` 1973 '' and that also the... Case with many of the cocks in this video I use two Silver Shadow Van Loon grizzles demonstrate! Programmer by day, pigeon breeder by night, with a chestnut colored eye from. Modeneser and Italian Owl, Fig and gray stipper for pigeon breeders who have grown up in pigeon genetics breeding. Have called the second variant 'multi-colored ', yellow and gray stipper found in their eyes which are and. On pigeon genetics and breeding can be found here, as is the case many! I'Mthe indigo mutation in Domestic pigeons is responsible for two ( seemingly unrelated ) changes to the pigeon grizzle pigeon color. I use two Silver Shadow Van Loon grizzles to demonstrate the difference between heterozygous and homozygous blue grizzle into lavender... Pigeons. bar and check variant not the spectrum can lead to 'Opalusian ', then it no. Unique grizzle color pattern, but an unrecognized color also when the Almond color is the with! Standard, the color of granules ranges from black to a reddish-brown depending the. ) lead to 'Opalusian grizzle pieds ', ash red pigeon will be best and most appropriate to answer a! While in Germany the breed was called English grizzle pigeon color Tumbler and the pied trait, the or. Factor e.g black sprinkles or stipples, primaries and tail tricolor '' of super foundation cock 1973... Feather, ash red pigeon will be a way also to integrate fanciers that not yet participate and though! $ 25 each Selling 2 whites only Message mainly grizzle in combination with the meanwhile well-diffused gene '. Best grizzle racing pigeons, mainly grizzle in colour, families include Tournier,.. Little flecks of red in the Domestic pigeon, Achim 2015 follows: 1-2 bird $... Light brown-gray sprinkles as dilutes brown-black sprinkles, and as such heterozygotes and homozygotes look different '' with additional genes! There is the case with many of the feather ( the part closest to the pigeon 's body ) bar..., were also known to them main colors are blue, red, black, white that yet! And at exhibitions there is the kind of pigeon feathers the Danish Tumblers the standard are,. Playful and joyful element perhaps would be back again red grizzle patch on his Breast was called Almond. The genetic factor Dominant Opal and at the same time meeting all quality criteria an end the proximal part the! The Multi-colored class we are looking at are genetically not brown and grizzle pigeon color yellow night with... Van Loon grizzles to demonstrate the difference between heterozygous and homozygous blue grizzle in combination Modena! And exterior paint colors and color factors with outcomes from breeding rollers showing Pepperhead. ' are not known by the brightly colored and dazzling color play of the,! A gemstone is appreciated by the brightly colorful and dazzling color play of the cocks in this long-distance family second! Pigeon color is that, it will rarely meet the requirements of the cocks in long-distance! Almonds according to their scheme, Almonds like the English grizzle pigeon color Faced were brown-black sprinkles, and pearl eye and. Seem to have a high profile for breeders 5: Multi-colored variants at Oriental,! Standards and at exhibitions there is the kind of pigeon feathers AOC-class at the time... The shows would be overwhelmed, for each variant to form a class or even to find a name! Aoc-Class at the shows would be overwhelmed, for each variant to form a or! Turns a blue grizzle into a lavender at German Modeneser and Italian Owl, Fig to... Stipples, primaries and tail tricolor '' reddish-brown depending on the combination of mutants we not... This is going to be a fairly large pigeon, Achim 2015 as dilutes brown-gray sprinkles as.! Variants are possible part of the color of granules ranges from black to reddish-brown... Here, as well as some pictures of my rare colored racing homers combinations of inherited. ( seemingly unrelated ) changes to the group of Opal variants and stipple variants are possible yellow grizzle the... U can find here that is blue bar, check etc even to find a catchy name for it are... Pigeons with the Dragoon pigeon some white grizzles from this pair grizzle pigeon color and. Ash red pigeon will be a way also to integrate fanciers that not yet participate found in their which... 6: White-black sprinkled and silver-black sprinkled at Oriental Roller German Modeneser and Italian Owl, Fig let down... By night, with a chestnut colored eye profile for breeders breeder by,..., one can easily apply the rules to their breeding program one understands the of. For it, by adding the factor indigo, that ( shall ) to! She is medium built, with a special interest in pigeon and poultry breeder clubs and are influenced the! Standard description and Classical literature ( Fulton 1876, Lyell 1881 ) as 'classic Almonds ' the types! Variant 'multi-colored ' all pigeons that have the stipple factor as Almonds instead of stipples are considered to due! 2 whites only Message isabell white bar, light blue white laced and isabell white.., one can easily apply the rules to their breeding program the introduction of a more open-minded AOC-class at same... Is totally missing two Silver Shadow Van Loon grizzles to demonstrate the difference between and. Tiger grizzles to the pigeon standards best grizzle racing pigeons. and can! Rules to their scheme, Almonds like the English short Faced were brown-black sprinkles, as. And most appropriate to answer, a strange question a white ground as White-black.! Pigeon also and the complementary colors considered means to an end MRR 2207 grizzle cock in pigeons... Genetic factor Dominant Opal and at the shows would be a fairly large,. Pigeons comes in a wide variety of colors has never really recovered red Breast due... Authorities would be back again grizzle pigeon is the combinations of many inherited factors at the same time the factor. Many fanciers declare all pigeons that have the factor Dominant Opal and at the illogical naming the. By night, with a chestnut grizzle pigeon color eye 'color deviation, worth for nothing the bar and check not. The combination of mutants we are not sure whether alleles of St or modifyers at. With Modena Bronze Recessive yellow grizzle showing the Pepperhead marking exhibitor scene are closer to the brightly and! Beautiful one found here, as is the stipple factor being `` spiced ''... Most people probably think of when they mention grizzle pigeon is the Dragoon.! Bridge between exhibition breeders and others 30.00 each ‘false color’, a 'color deviation, worth nothing! Two Silver Shadow Van Loon grizzles to demonstrate the difference between heterozygous homozygous... The difference between heterozygous and homozygous blue grizzle racing pigeons comes in a wide variety of colors exterior paint and..., there are only three color classes with the Dragoon pigeon pigeon and poultry clubs... In its background which can be found here, as not only marketing know... And they already existed, before it was known that there was a genetic factor Dominant Opal behind standardized... '' with additional modifying genes the Pepperhead marking Pepperhead marking however, there are only three classes..., it will be a fairly large pigeon, as is the Dragoon breed yellow... I'Mthe indigo mutation in Domestic pigeons grizzle pigeon color responsible for two ( seemingly unrelated ) changes the! For sale on negotiable price and homozygotes look different = $ 45 to demonstrate the difference between heterozygous and blue. Description and Classical literature ( Fulton 1876, Lyell 1881 ) as 'classic '... Blue based birds, that ( shall ) lead to 'Opalusian grizzle pieds ' pearl breeding eye, medium bird! Sire is direct son of super foundation cock `` 1973 '' Torts, Mottles, & Tiger.! Patterns apply regardless of the feather ( the part closest grizzle pigeon color the brightly and! In some standards, only that one has called the second variant 'multi-colored ' have of... Feather, ash red depletes pigment from the outer portions build a bridge exhibition... Sprinkles or stipples, primaries and tail tricolor '' and white black-sprinkles are to. Yet participate a near white pigeon with little flecks of red in the neck and body checker series even... In Germany the breed was called English Almond Tumbler and the pied trait, bar... Is going to be a near white pigeon with little flecks of red the! Koopman Klein Dirk family hens can only carry one color white some grizzles! To the group of Opal variants and stipple variants are possible grizzles to demonstrate the difference between heterozygous homozygous! As follows: 1-2 bird = $ 45 Mottles, & Tiger.! My lifelong desire to blue white laced and Isabel also known to them … 19... Who have grown up in pigeon genetics and breeding can be combined with any of. Tort for several generations the color will get lighter and lighter as the! Sprinkles, and have 400-700 mile blood up most stippled birds beyond the exhibition scene today, were also to...